Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:39:35

Hi Marcia. They are both not using their litter boxes that much. Brian is a lot better than Sabrina. He peed out twice this morning. But he was extremely well behaved last night. The funny thing is, after he peed out, he went and sniffed at his handiwork and didn't like what he smelled. So, he tried to scratch at the sheet (attempting to bury it perhaps) and when that didn't work, he tugged at the sheet. He even looked embarrassed. He was usually such a clean and picky guy when it comes to toilet business.

How well is Sabrina litter-box trained?

The boxes I got for Brian are a little high, about a foot high. I don't know whether Sabrina is doing her business out because of inconvenience or.. And she doesn't quite get the idea of eating hay out of a box. I had to put a handful of hay in her litter box to get her eating some hay. And I end up all sneezy this morning.

Puzzling... She thumps at the sight and sound of me and went and hid in the box I cut out for her. So, I removed that box. Certainly looks like she is going to be an ostrich in that box, given the choice. She seems to be more comfortable with Brainy's presence than mine.

Brian is a little more excited that usual. But he seems quite content. He keeps begging to get out of his pen though.

Sabrina on the other hand, seems scared and freaked.

Let me tell you their setup. At Shankar's place, I lay 2 sheets of shower curtains over the carpet (for water-proofing.) Over that, I placed a few towels for absorption purposes. To solve the towel fibers problem, I placed bed sheets over the towels. Then, I took 2 pens, joining one end of each pen together and place that over the edge next to the wall such that the joint is at the center. I then make two circles such that the other two ends curl back and join the first two ends like this:

where the + sign is where the first 2 ends of the pens are joined. (It's set up that way so that the pens can be easily combined and re-separated for their get-together sessions.) They have both peed at spots A, B, C, D outside their litter-boxes. I gave Sabrina two boxes since she was a little more "equal opportunity" to the entire space when it comes to decide where she wants to do her business.

My question is, how soon should I clean the sheets? Do I let it be till the bonding process is over? Or should I clean them so that the buns don't smell their thing and decide that it's ok to pee outside their boxes? Should I spot clean the sheet with vineger and sponge (which would leave a strong vinegery smell...)? Or??

I thought they would lose their litter-box habit when they are placed together to mark the territory against each other. I didn't expect them to lose their habit when they are in separate pens. Hmm.. :-/

I haven't put them together yet. Will do that this evening.

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003.

Hi--Sabrina was very well litter-box trained at the shelter, so I'm sure it's the move, the new territory and people that are setting her off. She was afraid of everyone when she first came to the shelter, but then she warmed up in just a short amount of time.

I think it sounds like both of them are marking their territory. Fairly typical behavior.

A foot high box might be a little high for her, but maybe not. You will have to watch and see. She will eventually get the idea of eating hay out of a box--she is probably thinking, Too many changes! I'd give her a box to hide in part of the time--that way, she will feel comfortable, like she has a place to be safe. You can take it away at different times for a while.

I think giving her 2 litter-boxes was good; you could try moving the boxes to the places they are peeing. They might be trying to tell you that's where they want the box. Who knows what they are thinking? Just for your own sake, I wouldn't change sheet that often, because it sounds like a huge ordeal. But if you can't stand it, go ahead. It won't affect them, I don' t think. I wouldn't worry at this point about spot cleaning it--it sounds like they are trying to get used to each other, each other's smells and the new territory. And trying to set up a hierarchy, too.

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:32:40

Hi, Marcia.

Last night, I put them together for some 40 minutes. I didn't give them a car ride yesterday because I was really busy at work.

Anyway, this is what happened. Brian was the Brian we saw at the first day of his dates. I think Sabrina was a bit surprised. (I think Brainy was relatively "nice" last Wednesday because he didn't have time to settle down from his car ride.) He ran after Sabrina persistently and mounted her persistently. Sabrina put up with that for a few minutes. Then, she started escaping and running away while Brian chased after her. There were a lot a lot of mounting and chasing on Brian's part and a lot a lot of running away by Sabrina. It's strange that there were times that Brian thumped after mounting her and then ran off to the far corner of the pen as if he was the one violated. Sabrina would slowly and gingerly get up and go over to check him out. Their noses nuzzled for one second or so before Sabrina got mounted again.

Once she tried to get away while he was hanging onto her and he wouldn't let go. So, I lifted him off her. It was evolving into a whirl if I didn't stop him.

I separated them after 40 minutes when Sabrina looked quite freaked and scared. The weird thing is, after I separated them, they were sticking their noses out to each other. Almost looked like I just separated an amorous couple. After that, they flopped on the side of the pen closest to each other for a while.

Today, Shankar and I took them out on a car ride for some 20 minutes. They did get into the litter-box and stayed there together the whole ride. Sabrina was moving closer to Brian but Brian didn't twitch a muscle, except at a stop light when he groomed himself. Then, slowly Sabrina moved away from him a little, stayed in the box but a few inches away from Brian.

I put them together again after the car ride. Brian was much more mellowed. They stayed on their own side for something like 6-7 minutes before Sabrina got out of her litter box and went over to nudge Brian. After their noses touched, she put her head down in front of him. Brian being the punk he is, climbed on top of her in no time. There were still chasing and running and mounting. But compared to last night, one can even call that an improvement.

They are separated for their dinner right now. Sabrina is sitting on the side closest to Brian's pen while the dude decides to sit at the far end.

I will try to put them together again later tonight. I want them to at least finish their dinner first.

Oh! By the way, I removed that one foot gap. It doesn't look like they will bite each other through the bars. Sabrina has no interest to bite Brian and Brian only bites when he mounts her. I figured it's a good thing if they stick their noses to each other and Brian can't mount her and has to learn to look at her in her face. (His tail was still up and twitchy though.)

Sabrina now has 3 litter boxes. I went to get a lower cat litter box for her. Probably will grab a few more if I go to Target sometimes. Yeah.. I tried to put them where she pees and poops. But she is really quite equal opportunity. However, she seems delighted to be able to hop from box to box. That was the first thing Brian came to check out when I removed their partition.

She is a bit better today. Last night, her whole area was wet. Today is damp. But Brian's side is equally damp.

What do you think? Sabrina definitely seems interested but she doesn't like the mounting one bit. I wonder how long it would take Brian to learn not to mount her.

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003.

Hi--actually, this sounds pretty promising. Sabrina definitely sounds interested in him, since she seeks him out after the mounting, or if he is off pouting. I'm a little worried about the gap being gone--could they bite each other if they decided to? It might be too soon to take it away; you could make it smaller than one foot though.

Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 01:42:15

Hi Marcia.

I want to update you what happened tonight. It's interesting. I must admit I probably did something you won't approve off.

I removed their partition again at 10:30pm. Immediately, Brainy ran over and mounted her. After a few times of that, I decided to hold his ears and gently held his head back a little every time he mounted her so that she doesn't get too annoyed with his approach and so that he figures that it's not always fun for him to mount her. I know. I know. I probably shouldn't have done that. But that led to an interesting episode.

It did work that Sabrina didn't get so annoyed and Brainy started hesitating just a little bit before mounting her. And she had enough time to plan out her strategy. I must say I am way impressed with Sabrina.

Things started to change when he hopped into her litter box and mounted her. Right then, I handed a bunch of raisin in front of their faces. Brainy let go of his teeth that was grabbing her to get the treats. And Sabrina got the treats too. They were busily munching for a while that they forgot that they were so closed together without any hostility. Eventually, Brian got off and hopped off. Having the new found confidence that Brian could be "nice", Sabrina hopped after him and put her head down. He mounted her, I held his ears, he paused a tiny little bit and she escaped. Eventually, she revised a pattern.

They stopped chasing and running continuously. She hopped away a little bit, waited until Brian started hopping after her. When he almost reached her (sometimes reached her but before he can grab her), she hopped away a little more. When she moved, Brian waited till she stopped, observing what she did.

Then, this brave little girl did something very admirable. With him a few steps away, she hopped to the edge of the pen and flopped, sticking her feet out. Brian of course approached her. When he got next to her, I started petting him. Thank god he took the petting and sat down. Sabrina was obviously nervous, but she stayed there as long as he also stayed there. After a while, Brian insisted on getting up and went to nudge her. She let him until he started climbing her. Then, she shot away, literally. This kept happening. She shot away, sometimes just a few steps away, and then lay down, inviting his approach. He, invariably approached her. And she let him nudge her a little bit until he tried to get hold of her with his teeth, then she ran away and then lay down again.

There were occasional chasing from litter box to litter box. Brian, as stubborn as all males are, somehow caught the drift. Whenever Sabrina got into his litter box, stayed there and munched his hay (strange... She likes his box more than hers although I can't tell the difference), Brian flopped right outside of the box and waited for her. He of course got up immediately when she came out.

There were a few really interesting moments. There was once I was just petting Brian while Sabrina was in her litter box close by. She hopped out and snuggled right next to him, pushing her face next to his. And the most remarkable thing happened -- she licked him!! Only so briefly. But she did! I don't remember the exact scenario when this happened, but Brian licked her back too, also very briefly.

Then, I don't know why Sabrina did this, but a few times when Brian tried to mount her to no avail, she did that frolicking mid-air kicks thing, moving in a big circle only to come back to him. Maybe she was just trying to play with him. I don't know.

I supervised them until 1:20am when I myself am exhausted. I separated the couple, and gosh, they acted as if I just separated Romeo and Juliet. Brian, in particular, thumped his foot many times in protest. She lay down on the side closest to him. I think he was trying to get her attention.. he did stick out his head and grab her through the bars. She hopped away a little and then went back. And yes, I did fold a double panel back at the partition to thicken the layer so that he can't stick his mouth through.

Sabrina is such a smartie..

I am so tired. Going to flop myself and work with them some more tomorrow. This evening, I can finally see that this might very well work :-)

Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:14:50

Wow--you sound very dedicated. This all sounds really good. I can see that it can work from your descriptions. Sabrina clearly wants to be friends with him and she is trying to teach him that. I might not have suggested the holding of his ears,but it seems to have worked, so OK. The raisin treats was a good idea, too. Sabrina is smart--a good match for Brainy! Keep up the good [but exhausting work] --it definitely sounds like it will work out.

Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:09:01

Hi Marcia. Today isn't very eventful. At least to my untrained eyes, they didn't seem to have make much progress.

Shankar and I took them out for their car ride after breakfast. The crazy Brain humped the poor girl anyway, despite having the engine running (the car wasn't moving though.) I had to stop him twice. But he settled down once the car started moving.

After the ride, I put them together for 4 hours. I interfered much less compared to yesterday. Sabrina seems to know how to not get herself mounted very much. Sometimes, she let him mount her from the front. But that wasn't Brainy's preferred way. So, he always let go of her after a while and tried to reorient himself to mount her from the back, which was when she escaped.

She sought him out much less today. She seemed overly preoccupied with his hay box. There were times when both of them were doing their own thing for a long time. Brian seemed the impatient one today. He kept going to her. But there were times he didn't mount her but she ran away anyway in anticipation, I suppose.

She did try to teach him though. Once she was flopping and he hopped to her butt and stood there, sticking his nose out to check her reaction. She got up and hopped around him before he could mount her. But she just circled him and hopped right back and lay down with her face facing his. The stupid guy tried to mount her anyway.

Oh well.. At least it didn't get worse. I fed them after I myself absolutely couldn't continue standing there in the pen much longer.

I tried them again around 10:30pm till 1:20am again. Everything was happening in a slower motion -- the chasing, escaping etc. I supposed that's a good thing. But there was not big turning point like what happened last night.

May

Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:18:03

Hi Marcia. Things are going well today. For starter, right now, they are inside the pen together and I am outside writing to you!!

They got their car ride earlier around 3pm. They have been together since then. Brian was so sweet that I almost felt sorry for him that Sabrina still seems a bit suspicious of him. He hasn't been mounting her at all. He went next to her and then put his head down, sometimes while she was grooming herself. At the beginning when Brian got close, she hopped away. After a few time, Brian just sat down. He is still sitting there. Sabrina came and go and sometimes sat less than an inch away. He didn't move.

Ok. Once, he held his head down in front of her for quite a while, while she groomed herself. And since she didn't pay him any attention, he went behind her and put his forelegs around her, the pre-mounting act. She hopped away but he didn't chase or anything. I don't think he really wanted to mount her. Probably just trying to get her attention.

Sabrina seems to like all his stuff. She has been eating his hay, chewing on his chew ring, playing with his keys etc. as if she doesn't have toys herself :-)

I was sitting in the pen for a while at the beginning, while they were laying pretty close to each other the whole time. So, I thought I would leave and see what happened. They both went around the pen to look for me after I left, but things are still ok. A few times, Brian was running around and then he ran over to her and stood in front of her. She turned her head around to face his, and when he wasn't doing anything, she turned back to mind her own business. Brainy then ran to the side of the pens and stuck his nose out for me to rub for approval :-)

Keeping fingers crossed, these kids seem to really come around. He revised his attitude. She is still scared of him. But maybe she will revise her attitude too, after seeing his change.

I have a question though. I can't spend so much time with them during weekdays. I am afraid if I keep them apart too long when I am at work, they will forget what they worked out and had to start all over again. Is there such a concern?

Awww.. Goodness! She just went over to him and sat right next to him, forming the V-shape thing. But he got up. I think he was trying to groom her but he didn't know how and hurt her or something. He was pushing his head around her fur on her midsection. I can't see whether he did bite her or anything. But she twitched and got off but still sits less than a foot away. Oh well. He went into his box and is munching hay right now.

Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003.

Hi--sounds like things are working out. I think Sabrina's playing hard to get and it's working on Brian. Don't worry about not being able to spend so much time with them during the week--they won't forget the progress they've made. Just don't be too confident too soon and leave them alone before they are really ready, no matter how they are acting; in this case, you want to err on the side of caution.

As for that strange incident you describe at the end, run your hand over Sabrina's side and make sure he didn't bite her.

Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:05:1

Hi Marcia. This is curious. They are perfectly civilized to each other until I feel bad separating them for their dinner. So, I feed them their salad together. Once Brian got some salad in his tummy, he started behaving like last night, chasing Sabrina and trying to mount her. Oh well... She is laying down right now and he is monopolizing the salad. I am going to go back inside the pen to check on her.

May

Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:43:48

Hi Marcia. Last night was very much like the night before. It seems like there is a day time Brian and an evening Brian. Sabrina is at least consistent. It's weird. When Brian was nice to her, she ignored him. Not that she hopped away and stayed away from him. She stayed within 1.5 feet radius of him which is the distance between where Brian usually lies down and his hay box. She went to him when she wasn't in his box stealing his hay. But she didn't show him much affection either. But when Brian was chasing her around in the evening, it looks like she did make an effort to deal with him. She let him mount her a few times last night. Sometimes she stayed down when I know she could get away.

Yesterday before I fed them salad, they were getting along so well that there wasn't even a single marking outside the litter boxes. But when the chasing and mounting started, the markings started also.

May

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:35:40

Hi Marcia. Today was mostly good. They were together for 6 hours after the car ride, with me sitting there nodding off. For the most part of the evening, they were sitting together. Sometimes, one or both got up to munch hay. And then they went back and either sat close by, or together. Once Sabrina was grooming herself, Brian went to her and sat next to her and kept pushing his head under hers. For a while she ignored him and continued grooming herself. Then, she groomed his head a little and went back to grooming herself. When she was done with herself, she paused a little, and then groomed Brian's head and his ears. Not long. Probably just a few seconds. But she did. And then she sat down next to him.

I fed them their salad together this evening and they seemed to be doing just great.

Then for some reason only Brian understands, at 11pm, he started going a little nuts and went to bother Sabrina and tried to mount her a few times. There were some chasing and mounting and thumping. I stopped him a few times but he seemed persistent. And they started laying down further apart. I don't understand what is going on in his little head. Why is he trying to mess things up?

And then he acted all rejected and came and nudged me to pet him. So I did. And he melted under my hand. Dunno what kind of signal that is sending to him. Does he think I am rewarding him for being naughty and chasing Sabrina around?

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:55:34.

Hi May--actually things sound really, really good. A few minor set backs are to be expected. Sounds like Brian is a typical guy who is having commitment phobias! Just kidding--but it sounds like he "goes nuts" every once in a while for either hormonal reasons or just that he suddenly feels like running around and being in charge. Then he obviously felt rejected; it's fine to pet him. He doesn't think he's being rewarded; it sounds like he is feeling rejected by her, and/or guilty about his bad behavior. I think they have made tremendous progress and are on the road to total bonding. It may feel like a long time to you, but actually things are going really well.

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:34:27

Hi Marcia. Today is a lot like yesterday, although they seem more relax in each other's presence. In fact, they sat/lay down together so often that when they didn't, I wonder why. And then again at 11:30pm, Brian went nuts and started chasing and mounting Sabrina. I separated them shortly after that.

It's almost like the car ride is antibiotic for Brian and by 11pm-ish, the effect wears out and he goes nuts again.

I don't put them together before a car ride everyday. Actually, I was going to ask, when is it safe to stop the car rides? They seem very helpful to mellow down Brainy. I keep feeling I am scaring the poor Sabrina unnecessarily. Already she is feeling iffy about all the creatures around her.

May

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:09:21

Hi Marcia.

Yesterday was ok. Not the most eventful day. I got home a bit late, gave them a car ride and put them together. It might be strange but I kinda think Sabby is pushing Brainy around. She is acting like Brainy when he first came, ate all the good stuff and won't touch the lettuce. The difference is, Brainy would eat his lettuce later when he ran out of the good stuff. She won't. She just let them wilt in her plate. When I joined the pens, Brainy will typically go over and eat her leftover lettuce from breakfast. When I feed them together in the evening, Brainy would let her fish out most of the cilantro, dandelion green and parsley while he munches on the lettuce. And I KNOW how much Brainy loves those stuff himself. At first I thought she was just heading single mindedly for those stuff and he got shafted that by the time he paused from his lettuce, all the good stuff are gone. So, I secretly cut a stalk of cilantro from my pot and gave it to Brainy when Sabby was in his litter box stealing his hay. He took a little bite and then put it down and let her come out to eat it.

Later that evening, he chased her around again. But he didn't mount her. (When he chases her, I can actually see his pink thing on his underside. Does he still get arouse like that despite being neutered??)

Today, they were really snuggling during the car ride that I felt bad putting them into separate carriages afterwards. So, I put them together in the big one, totally ready to fish one of them out if they misbehave. But no. They continued to snuggle. After the car ride, they were mostly sitting together. Brainy got up once to nudge her midsection. And this time, instead of nipping at her, he groomed her. And now they are both sharing his hay box in his litter box. (Before, he would jump in, chase her out of the box if he wants to use it.) One thing that still puzzles me is that they still poop around. They stopped peeing all over the place. At least the sheets are finally dry.

It will be funny if Brainy actually gives in to her.

Today, I got their 50 pounds of hay from Oxbow. Happy happy joy joy! Sabrina has totally transformed Brian into a hay eating machine. He was never so much into hay as he is now. Together, they eat SO MUCH hay.

I don't really know what to look for. They don't groom each other often. Sometimes, I saw it once a day, sometimes not at all. Do bonded pairs groom each other all the time??

And they don't sit together all the time. I think they are still trying to work out who gets to sit next to the pen. They both want to. So, now, they found an angular corner so that they can both sit next to the pens, kicking their feet out to each other.

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:46:58

It sounds like more progress is being made every time. It will still take them a while to work lots of things [secret rabbit things that we can only guess at] out, but they are doing it little by little every day. That is clear from your reports. I think Brian is a little bit in love if he lets Sabrina eat his good salad stuff--that 's what the guy in my bonded pair used to do. Bonded pairs don't groom each other all the time, but they do some times. And yes, the boys can still get excited sometimes! Good thing she's making him eat more hay--again, that's what the girl of my pair did, too. They are obviously watching each other and being influenced by each other. I think this is very, very good. Keep doing what you're doing--they are moving along nicely.

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:09:16

Hi Marcia. The buns were pretty lovey lovey for most of the day. Now, Brian just chased Sabrina. So, they aren't sitting together right now. But for the most part of the day, they were sitting together all the time. They used the same litter box together, sitting side by side for their salad and their hay. And guess what? Brian is the one grooming Sabrina. Shankar said he saw Sabrina groomed him briefly while I was in the kitchen. But I saw Brian grooming Sabrina a few times today. And it wasn't just a few licks. He was grooming her head, her ears, her back. Once, I watched him for at least 15 minutes. I think you are right. Brian is very much in love. But I don't know whether Sabrina feels the same way.

I am planning not to separate them this evening and crash outside the pens with them. Well.. Unless Brian goes crazy again. But I don't think they will fight. Brian might chase Sabrina around. He usually does that pretty late at night when I was about to separate them. So, they never get a chance to work out that difference. Since I don't have to wake up early tomorrow, I figure I will give them a chance tonight.

I think this is working out, Marcia :-) I won't move them back upstairs until they regain their litter-box habit. They are using the boxes. But sometimes, they don't. Sometimes, their droppings outside the box are clustered. So, it's not like they are still marking their territory.

Oh! When I move them up, should I expect them to pee and poop around to mark territory? Just want to know what to prepare..

I will let you know what happens tonight.

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003.

Hi--I agree, I think Brian is in love. And I think Sabrina is, too, but she is being wily about it. I can't wait to hear how it goes tonight. The droppings outside of the boxes will probably continue for a while--and it might start up again once they are moved. I don't know about the peeing--I kind of doubt it, but I don't know. The droppings, though, tend to continue for a while while they're getting used to each other and honeymooning. They are making incredible progress--I really mean that.

Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:46:21

Hi Marcia. It didn't work very well. Actually, I don't know. I suppose I wanted some sleep. The crazy Brain was chasing her a lot. Woke me up many times. By 4am, I decided to separate them. But it's not like he was chasing her the WHOLE time. There are times I woke up finding him grooming her or they were making a lot of noise fighting with their hay boxes etc.

Their progress doesn't seem like a continuous thing. One day he would be chasing her a lot etc. And the next day, he could be completely nice to her, as if he actually thought through what happened the previous day, after they were separated.

I let them together right now, without a car ride first. Already Brainy has chased her a few times. But there are also quiet times like right now. He just groomed her. And he has groomed her a few times already too, although they have just been put together 45 minutes ago. (I just woke up..)

I am kinda disappointed. But I think I will have to allow them be together late into the night several times like this before they work things out. Otherwise, I will never know how they will behave at night. And they themselves probably won't know either.

May

Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:46:10

Hi Marcia. I kinda feel Sabrina is passive aggressive. She doesn't chase Brainy or attack him in any which way. But the poor guy. He would stick his head out for her to groom him and she completely ignores him. After a few minutes, Brainy would give in and groom her instead... Like what is happening right now. I feel so sorry for Brainy. It's so unfair. If she likes him, she should at least groom him sometimes :-( But it's obvious that she likes him... because if he hops off to the far litter box to munch hay, she will go over and sit down close by to wait for him.

Oh! I just saw this. She teased him! Brainy was completely benign to her and grooming her. I couldn't relay how she did it. But she did something and started running away. Only then did Brian run after her trying to mount her. (He didn't mount her.) And she escaped like Brainy just turned crazy or something.

May

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:59:40

Hi Marcia. They spent the first night together!! OK. I didn't sleep much myself. But I know this thing for sure, Brainy didn't chase Sabrina. Sabrina on the other hand, was a little high. She was zipping back and forth the pen at high speed. And then Brainy ran after her, probably wondering what was wrong with her. Or maybe they were both playing or something. I can't help wondering why they can't play when I was up and awake. They cooled down a little by sun rise. So, I got a little bit of sleep. When I opened my eyes though, Brainy was grooming her. They both managed to get me up. I was trying to sleep some more. But they were both climbing the pens. So, I got up to feed the monkeys :-)

Anyway.. yawn yawn.. I gotta go fill their hay boxes..

And oh! They are having theirs first breakfast together.

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:02:04

Hi--Sounds like great progress! Very good! I know what you mean about why must they zip around during the night time? One of my rabbits lives in our guest bedroom at night and when my husband is sick and I don't want to catch it, I move into that room to sleep and Picasso drives me crazy! He's running around and chewing up all his cardboard stuff and throwing his paper plates around--you get the idea. I think Brian and Sabrina will calm down a little eventually, but they will probably always have some night time activity--just the nature of their beasty selves I also know what you mean about her tactics with Brian--again, I saw this same thing with my 2 bonded ones--but my guy actually liked it, in a way. They became very devoted to each other, as I'm sure Brainy and Sabrina will, too.

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:40:05

Hi Marcia. Brainy grooms Sabrina all the time!! Sometimes they don't even sit together. But at times, Sabrina ran over to him to bother him while he was napping. He got up and groomed her. I can't imagine Brainy being so giving. Well... Actually, relatively speaking, Brainy is so much more giving than Sabrina.

I think I am going to let them be together tomorrow when I go to school. I get to come home sorta early anyway. And they mostly nap during the day.

May

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:27:26

Hi Marcia. Tonight, I am trying to let them use just one pen together. I am trying to let them get used to smaller spaces at night. Mostly because the silly girly sprints too much at night and that might be a problem when they share Brainy's cage at night. It's amazing how fast she can run, when she hops so funnily :-)

I was going to ask you.. Is that Hagen cage big enough for both of them?

They are almost inseparable these days. Sabrina thumps sometimes when I pick Brian up as if I stole her friend. She is a nervous wreck when I picked her up though. She is still super suspicious of me. She allows herself to come to me, but not for me to go to her. She comes and nudges me when I get into the pens. But the moment I tried to lower my hand, she ran away. This is of course better than a week ago when she didn't want to have anything to do with me.

Both of them are surveying their "new" setup for the night.

Tue, 15 Apr 2003.

Hi--Still more progress! That's great. I don't think the Hagen cage is big enough for both of them together, though. Sorry. Maybe if you just make the pen smaller, but it should still be larger than the cage. More later.... It all sounds good, though.

Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:06:15

It's ok, Marcia. Brainy only slept in his cage at night also. He got out early in the morning. If that doesn't work for both of them, they can sleep in the pen then. Yes.. I thought it would be cramped. That's why I asked you. Even though the empty cage looks big, with a litter box inside, a water crock and a box of hay, it was pretty cozy for Brainy alone. Although they seem to snuggle side by side and that doesn't take up so much space, I can't just expect them to snuggle all the time at night and not do anything.

I think I will leave the cage inside the pen like before, with the top off. Brainy liked his cage. So, maybe he still wanted to flop in there occasionally.

Silly Sabrina chews at the pen all the time! She seems like a big explorer. I feel like I need to re-bunny-proof my place. But then who knows what she would do, before I let her try it out.

Today, I bought an AC for the buns :-) It's getting hot..

They are doing really well. Except the dropping, I think they are ready to go back upstairs. Brainy is seriously so in love in her. Occasionally, they run together and Brainy run around her in circle :-)

May

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:46:55

Hi, Marcia. Not good. They are both err... This morning, I came in here, finding Girly pulling at the sheet from under the pens and chewing at the exposed shower curtain. I stopped her. But she came back many times. So, I ended up lining the edges of the pens with flattened cereal boxes. She ran around and checked it out while Brainy ate his salad. Then, they both ran into their box and stayed there for a while, probably conferencing. And then, they both ran out, ran to the edge of the pens where Girly was working on earlier, and Brainy started chewing at the cardboard. He did it for a couple of seconds and then stepped back, while Girly stepped up and started chewing the cardboard. Brainy then proceeded to his salad.

One might even imagine the bunny conversation:

Girly: Oh no! What did mommy do to the edge of the pens? How do I get to the sheets now? Brainy, come. We need to talk.

(Brainy put down his salad and joined her in the box for bunny conference..)

Brainy: Don't worry. I will show you what to do. Come with me.

(Both ran out of the box to the edge of the pens.)

Brainy: Just do what I do.. (chew cardboard and then step back.)

Brainy: Now you try it. (Girly stepped up and chewed cardboard.)

Brainy: That's my girl. Now, I shall get back to my salad. Call me if you need more help.

:-?

Mon, 21 Apr 2003.

Sounds like these 2 need their own TV show! Sabrina is obviously warming up to her territory, at least. It's true that rabbits learn tricks from each other--even bad tricks. I like your dialog for them, it's probably pretty accurate. You're thinking in rabbit talk now.

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:14:31

Hi Marcia. I moved the buns back to my place this morning. They seem to be doing just fine. Girly was scared. It was a bit of a workout trying to catch her to put them in Brainy's cage, while I cleaned the sheets and such like.

But right now, she is comfortable with the penned area to start tugging at sheets and chewing them. I will give them tonight. If they behave and don't pee around by tomorrow, I am going to remove those sheets. I have tough mats underneath to protect the carpet. And I don't think she can chew through those.

May

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:03:14

Hi Marcia. The buns are having their first run around the house this evening :-) I finally fixed the Neat Idea Cube condo. Well, I might add another shelf, depending on how much they like it.

They are both sprinting like mad. Girly won't let me touch her. But then I am not trying too hard either.

Anyway, I haven't done any research for a month. This is bad.. And I am trying to graduate.

Oh well... I better find a way to get back to work.

I am so proud of myself for constructing that condo though :-) Took a picture to show you.